Tag Archives: Forever

Revelation 14: 10-11 Question

A Question From Hasin

I was asking this same question for a moment as I studied the bible. But I was looking for a specific verse I wish you would address.

Revelation 14:10-11

“…they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”


I can understand all the verses but this one. If truly it’s destruction, how do you see this one as an eternal torment with no rest day and night?

Response:

Hasin, Thank you for your question. If Revelation 14: 10-11 were the only verses we had in scripture on the fate of the lost, I would still see a conflict in its words with the remainder of the Bible, which describes our Creator’s character of love, mercy, justice, and fairness. There are so many verses that describe something different from what we think we are seeing in this one verse. Very clear verses without symbols or metaphors tell us clearly that the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23, not life in non-ending flames. God’s love for the world was so great that He allowed His Son to perish on the cross for our sins so we don’t have to perish as He did.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him SHOULD NOT PERISH but have everlasting life. John 3:16

The lost do not live forever (even in flames). Only those “who has the Son has life” not those who do not have the Son:

And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

1 John 5:11-12

When we think it through, those who maintain that God burns people alive in a place called hell for eternity want us to believe that a loving, merciful Creator exchanges a lost person’s short time on earth for trillions of years of punishment in stinging hot flames without any mercy at all.

They want us to believe that God’s wrath is so great that it can never be quenched. His anger will never be satisfied.

So, what is John describing in the book of Revelation that we may be missing? He is describing through symbols the end of those who choose to worship the beast over Himself. It is a specific group at the end of time. First, let’s look at this verse and see what is literal and what is symbolic, and always careful to remember context with God’s character of love.

“…he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Revelation 14: 10-11

Here are the metaphors and symbols lifted out of the verses:

1.) Drinking the wine of the wrath of God.

2.) God pouring out this wrath

3.) Smoke of torment.

If we take this passage literally, we see people burning in flames right in front of Jesus and the lamb forever…every day…without end…The redeemed can actually see the smoke off their suffering bodies! So how can that be heaven for them and us who “follow the lamb wheresoever he goes?” (verse 4). Logically, and knowing what we know about Jesus, we suspect we may be missing the symbolism of a one-time fire of everlasting “destruction.”

Also, if we take it literally, those who worship the beast and its image continue to do so in the flames. So something about taking this literally doesn’t add up with the nature of God, Jesus, and heaven.

The problem with the Western mind is the understanding of the word “forever.” We use it one way, i.e., “without end.” The same with the word “everlasting.” We look at it as it without end. But the Greek word aiōn, translated into English forever, can mean until its purpose is completed. Here is an example to consider.

The Bible uses Sodom and Gomorrah as an example of suffering the “vengeance of eternal fire” Jude 1:7 Yet the flames have gone out and turned into ashes,

“turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;” 2 Peter 2: 6

So very clearly, we see that there is an example of the fate of the lost. Their fire will have eternal effects…not eternal duration. They will be turned to ashes.

Malachi and other passages confirm that the fate of the lost is being burned to ashes, and there is nothing left of them…no root or branch.

“For behold, the day is coming,
Burning like an oven,
And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble.
And the day which is coming shall burn them up,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“That will leave them neither root nor branch. Malachi 4:1

Even Satan, himself, will be turned to ashes

“You defiled your sanctuaries By the multitude of your iniquities, By the iniquity of your trading; Therefore I brought fire from your midst; It devoured you, And I turned you to ashes upon the earth In the sight of all who saw you. Ezekiel 28:18

Ask a fireman about an unquenchable file. When they arrive on the scene of a house engulfed in flames, they can’t put it out …it is unquenchable…Consequently, they wait for the flames to die down after doing its work of destruction. An unquenchable fire can’t be put out, but it will eventually die out.

Those who know God personally like they would a loving earthly father feel uncomfortable with the ancient Pagan belief in a vengeful God who tortures unbelievers in flames without end. It doesn’t fit the remainder of the Bible’s description of the love and mercy of a benevolent Father and Son. Many preachers are turning away from the scare tactics of hell to the love expressed in the cross. It is the love, kindness, and mercy that leads people to Christ.


And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.”

John 12: 22


And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” Jeremiah 31:3

Pastors, draw people to Jesus this way without the scare tactics and you will see revival in your church. Show His mercy, and eagerness to forgive. Lift Him up! Be like Paul when he said to unruly church at Corinth:

For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. 1

Corinthians 2:2


Sorry for the long answer. Please read part 3 of this series which explains some of the difficult verses…https://www.answersfromscriptureonline.com/2019/02/01/the-fate-of-the-lost-part-3-difficult-verses/

Everlasting-Effect VS Duration

“And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.”

Revelation 21:4.

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During this series on life and death confusion, we have read many passages from different inspired writers of the Bible, including  Jesus, about the end of all things.  It does not include life for the wicked and torturous flames.

Recently, a Jordanian pilot was burned alive by the evil ISIS.  The man with a family suffered and died within minutes.  The world abhorred the act.  This act of torture was inconceivable and demonstrated merciless cruelty. It brought intense anger to people regardless of nationality or belief.

Yet, many of these same angry people will preach from the pulpit and in Bible classes that God’s flames of torture called “hell” will be even more tortuous.  The flames of God according to them, will be non-stop!  Just as the flames begin to consume the flesh and blood and begin to melt, God will miraculously bring the flesh back so the flames will have more fuel for the torture of every nerve ending in their body.

According to them, this happens to all who reject Jesus.  70 years of life by those who did not have a choice for the time or place of their birth will be exchanged for trillions of years of torture by a God that so loved the world..  All this non-ending suffering because they did not accept Jesus and chose to live their own life.  They may have   belonged to another religion and were taught to not believe in Jesus.

The hardworking young man with a wife in China who did not believe in  Christ and instead worship the philosophy of Buddha is condemned to non-ending torture just like Hitler or the animals of ISIS.  Is that the type of God Jesus came to reveal?  Jesus told Philip,

“He who has seen Me has seen the Father”

John 14:9

Did Jesus promise to torture those who rejected them?  As we have seen in previous studies, the wages of sin is death…eternal death….the second death….

Jesus came to give life

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Many point to passages in the Bible that appear to contradict the plain words we have studied thus far.  If you have been introduced to Answers From Scripture Online and this is your first blog to read.  Stop and read the following blogs first.

Life and Death Confusion Part 1

Life and Death Confusion Part 2

Life and Death Confusion-The End and The Beginning

Did Jesus teach more on hell than heaven?

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To be fair, we will look at the passages that seem to indicate the fires of hell never go out.

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Unquenchable Fire

 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mark 9: 42-44

Here is the supposed proof text about a never ending place of torture.  But, lets start with a simple question:  “Does a fire that is “not quenched” never go out?

Ask a fireman if he (or she) has ever seen an fire that can’t be quenched.  Of course they have.  Is it still burning?  No!  It must burn itself out after there is no more substance to burn.  Unquenchable fire is a fire that can’t be put out (extinguished) rather than one that keeps on burning non-stop.  

 Isaiah gives us a picture of an unquenchable fire that goes out:

“Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor a fire to sit before it.”

Isaiah 47:14.

After the fire has accomplished its work of destruction, that fire will go out. No one can deliver themselves from its flame by putting it out, but finally not a coal will be left.

Jeremiah prophesied that Jerusalem would burn with a fire that could not be quenched

The Prophecy

“…then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.”

Jeremiah 17:27

But, it burned down and was destroyed.

Then they burned the house of God, broke down the wall of Jerusalem, burned all its palaces with fire, and destroyed all its precious possessions.

2 Chronicles 36:19

Effect not Duration….

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But, how about the expression of “where the worm never dies.”

Some believe that Jesus refers to sinners as worms and says that those people would never die but would live on in agonizing torment. Those who say this fail to notice that Jesus does not call wicked people “worms,” but speaks of “their worm.” The original Greek word for worm means “grub” or “maggot.”

Jesus refers to a local method of garbage disposal to emphasize the permanent consequences of unrepented sins. The margins of some Bibles show that the words “hell fire” in Mark 9:47 should be translated “Gehenna fire.” Gehenna, or the valley of Hinnom, is located outside Jerusalem. Trash, refuse, animal carcasses, and even the dead bodies of despised criminals were thrown there to be destroyed by the fires that burned perpetually on the valley floor. If some animal or vegetable matter fell on one of the ledges below the rim, escaping the fire, it would instead be devoured by maggots.

Jesus’ point is that whatever was thrown into the valley never came out again; it was totally consumed, either by fire or by worms or maggots. In other words, just as nothing and no one exterminated the maggots or extinguished the flames in the valley of Gehenna, so there will be no escape from the certain fate that God has decreed for all unrepentant sinners—death in the “lake of fire” (Revelation 22:14).

Some of these same principles apply to Isaiah 66:24.

“And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

Isaiah 66:24

The meaning is not that unrepentant sinners or worms live forever. In fact, the opposite is the point of the passage. If the worms that infest a dead body are not killed, the rotting flesh will be consumed until none remains. Maggots, which are simply larval flies, go through a process known as pupation and turn into adult flies. These, in turn, deposit additional eggs, and the process is repeated until nothing is left for maggots to feed on. Similarly, any fire which is not quenched—not deliberately put out—will last only as long as there is fuel to keep it burning and then go out. The whole point is that, when a person does not repent of sin, the results are absolute and permanent—eternal oblivion!

Again, effect not duration.

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And what can we say about the expressions “eternal” “everlasting” which are used to describe the fires of hell? There is absolutely no confusion or contradiction when we allow the Bible to supply its own definition of terms. Many make the mistake of applying modern definitions to those biblical words without reference to their an- cient contextual usage. This violates one of the most fundamental rules of interpretation.

The fact is that eternal fire does not mean a fire that will never go out. The same expression is used in Jude 7 concerning the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrha.

“Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

Jude 7

It is quite obvious that Sodom is not still burning today. The Dead Sea rolls over the place where those ancient cities once stood. Yet they burned with “eternal fire,” and we are told that it was an example of something. What is it an example of?

“And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly.” 

2 Peter 2:6.

There it is! That eternal fire which brought Sodom to ashes is an example of what will finally happen to the wicked. If this text is true, the same kind of fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrha will also burn the wicked in the lake of fire. It will have to be eternal fire.

Does that mean it will also burn the wicked to ashes? The Bible says Yes.

“For behold, the day cometh that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch ... And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.”

Malachi 4:1, 3.

No words of any language could make it more forceful or clear. This eternal fire burns up eternally. Even Satan, the root, is finally consumed. How consistent the whole picture appears as we let the Bible explain its own terms. What devious manipulation of words would be required to evade the obvious meaning of these words. Yet those who have been prejudiced by a lifetime of tradition can read those words “burn them up … they shall be ashes” and still insist that the wicked are alive and suffering. Admittedly, there are some ambiguous verses on this subject, but we are finding that they all harmonize when the context is considered, and the Bible is allowed to be its own commentary.

Even Christ’s words in Matthew 25:46 are not confusing when we the obvious meaning.

“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”

Matthew 25:46

Many are troubled over the expression, “everlasting punishment,” but notice that it does not say “everlasting punishing.” Whatever the punishment is, it will last eternally. Does the Bible tell us what the punishment is? Of course. “

The wages of sin is death.

Romans 6:23

So Jesus was simply saying that the death would be everlasting. It would never end. It would never be broken by a resurrection.

Paul simplifies it further with these words:

“In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished … “

2 Thessalonians 1:8

Now, listen, Paul is going to tell us what the punishment is.

“Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power.”

2 Thessalonians 1:8, 9.

So the punishment is everlasting destruction – a destruction that is everlasting. From it there will be no resurrection or hope of life.

The destruction is everlasting in its effect not in its duration.

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Perhaps the most easily misconstrued text about hell is John’s allusion to the smoke ascending “for ever and ever.” For those who are unfamiliar with other uses of this phrase in the Bible, it can be very confusing indeed. But a comparison of verses in both Old and New Testaments reveal that the words “for ever” are used 57 times in the Bible in reference to something that has already come to an end. In other words, “for ever” does not always mean “without end.”

Many notable examples could be cited, but two or three are noteworthy. In Exodus 21, the conditions are laid down concerning the law of servitude. If a servant chose to continue serving the master he loved rather than his freedom when it came due, then his ear was to be pierced with an awl and the Scripture declares, “He shall serve him for ever.” Verse 6. But how long would that servant serve his human master? Only as long as he lived, of course. So the words “for ever” did not mean without end.

Hannah took her son Samuel to God’s temple, where he would “there abide for ever.” 1 Samuel 1:22. Yet in verse 28 we are plainly told, “As long as he liveth he shall be lent to the Lord.” The original meaning of the term “for ever” indicates an indefinite period of time. Generally it defines the period of time in which something can continue to exist under the circumstances prevailing. Even Jonah’s stay in the whale’s belly is described by him as “for ever.” Jonah 2:6.

Someone may object that this could also limit the life of the righteous in heaven, because they are described as glorifying God forever. The terms are the same for both the saved and the lost. But there is one tremendous difference in the circumstances involved.

The saints have received the gift of immortality when Jesus returns (and not before).

Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—  in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Corinthians 15: 51-53

Note: immortality is not “put on” until the last trumpet when Jesus will come with shout and the trumpet of God.  See 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18

Their life (those who died in Christ and are resurrected) now measures with the life of God. Immortality means “not subject to death.” The words “for ever” used in reference to them could only mean “without end,” because they are immortal subjects already. But when “for ever” is used to describe the wicked, we are talking about mortal creatures who can die and must die. Their “for ever” is only as long as their mortal nature can survive in the fire which punishes them according to their works.

Forever, must be taken in its context.

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Soul and Body Destroyed

This brings us to the final fact concerning the fate of the wicked. After the unsaved are punished according to their sins, they will be wiped out of existence, both body and soul. Jesus states it very simply,

“And fear not them which kill the body … but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”

Matthew 10:28.

In the light of this statement, how can anyone continue to claim immortality for the wicked? Jesus, the only One who can bestow the gift of life, rejects the possibility that those in hell can continue to live in any form whatsoever. The life will be snuffed out for eternity, and the body will be annihilated in the flames.

The psalmist wrote:

“But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.”

Psalm 37:20.

“For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.”

Verse 10

The most powerful, definitive words in human language are used to describe the destruction in hell, but people still insist that the writers do not really mean what their words express. “Destroy,” “consume,” “burn up,” “devour,” “death”-do these words have some mysterious, opposite meaning in the Bible than they have in other books? We have no reason to think so.

The fact is that theology has made an ogre out of our great God of love. He has been portrayed as more cruel than Hitler. Even though Hitler tortured people and experimented with them, finally he allowed them to die. But God will keep these deathless souls alive for the purpose of seeing them writhe and scream throughout eternity, so the theologians claim.

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God’s Justice Vindicated

Not only is such a picture  a misrepresentation of God’s love, it also distorts His justice. Think for a moment about the implications of a doctrine that would consign every lost soul to an immediate, never-ending hell at the time of death. Suppose a man died 5,000 years ago with one cherished sin in his life. His soul would go instantly into the fire to be tormented for eternity. Then picture another death; that of Adolph Hitler, who supervised the deaths of millions of people. According to the popular doctrine, his soul also would immediately enter hell to suffer eternally. But the man who was lost because of only one sin, will burn 5,000 years longer than Hitler. How could that be just? Would God deal in such a manner? It would contradict the Bible statement that each one must be punished according to his works.

There are two extreme views in current circulation concerning the punishment of the wicked. One is Universalism, which contends that God is too good to allow anyone to be lost. The other is the awful doctrine of endless torment which would perpetuate for all eternity a dark abyss of anguish and suffering. Both are wrong. The truth lies in between. God will punish the wicked according to their works, but He will not immortalize evil in the process.

I truly believe that many honest souls have been turned away from God because of their revulsion at this misrepresentation of His character. They can’t love someone who would arbitrarily keep evil people in endless torment with no purpose in view. No rehabilitation is possible. Only a vindictive spirit of revenge could be served by such an unspeakable arrangement. Is God like that?

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No More Pain Or Death

Someday soon God will have a clean universe. All the effects of sin will be banished forever. There will be no sin, no sinners and no devil to tempt. It will be just exactly like God planned it in the beginning.

John described that future home in these words,

“And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.”

Revelation 21:4.

Can you find any room in those precious words for any suffering on the part of anybody in the whole recreated universe? God said crying and pain would be no more. Do you believe His Word or do you choose to believe man’s surmising? Just four verses before writing this promise, John described how the wicked would be cast into the lake of fire.

“And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away.”

Revelation 20:15; 21:1.

That lake of fire is right here on planet earth according to Revelation 20:9. But please notice that this place where the wicked burn will pass away, and God will re-create the new earth in its stead. The new Jerusalem descends before that fire devours the wicked, and afterwards, according to verse 4, there will be no more sorrow, pain, crying, or death. In order for no more pain to exist, there can be no eternal hell existing either. The two things are mutually exclusive of each other. We should thank God every day that His plan will finally bring an end to suffering. Satan will not be here to cause pain, and God promises that His new kingdom will not even contain a shadow of a pain.

“For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

John 3:16.

Much thanks to Doug Batchelor (Amazing Facts) for his contribution on this topic.